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Why Print is the Missing Piece in Your Creator Ecosystem

Why Print is the Missing Piece in Your Creator Ecosystem

Podcast 38 min read

Publish & Prosper Episode #110
Published March 11, 2026
Listen on: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Complete List of Channels


In this episode, Lauren & Matt have a conversation exploring why print needs to be part of your creator strategy. We consider the current state of digital content, influenced by algorithms and AI, and how content entrepreneurs can use print books to better establish their brand longevity and legacy (and, of course, to make money).

Episode Chapters

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Complete Episode Transcript

Lauren: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Publish & Prosper. Today we are going to be adding another P to that while we talk about why print is the missing piece of your creator ecosystem and how print books can help you prosper.

Matt: So Publish. Print. Prosper?

Lauren: Wow, that sounds familiar.

Matt: Somebody shoulda put that on an ad or something. Somewhere over the years.

Lauren: It's not too late to go back and do it now.

Matt: We're professionals. The other P in this.

Lauren: The four Ps of the Publish & Prosper podcast

Matt: Professionals remember their microphones. Actually, I probably shouldn't have this. Yep.

Lauren: Do you want me to start over or should we just –?

Matt: No, no, no. Let’s just keep going.

Lauren: Okay. Great.


[1:22] - Episode Topic Intro

Matt: So we're talking about print. Imagine that.

Lauren: Yes. Yes. Today we're talking about print, and –

Matt: So before you hit the pause button, let us explain.

Lauren: We promise. We know you've heard this before, but not –

Matt: Maybe.

Lauren: – not entirely. You know?

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: There is... I think there's always new angles and new elements that we like to look at when we're talking about different ways that different types of creators and businesses can use print books, print products, print marketing tools, whatever it is.

Matt: Yeah, and it's – actually, it's less about print per se, and more about breaking through the norms and monetizing content in a different way than you have been. And again, quite frankly, just trying to cut through a lot of the white noise that's out there right now.

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: So...it’s really –

Lauren: Yeah, maybe –

Matt: – it's really a conversation about monetization.

Lauren: A conversation about monetization and a conversation about the creator ecosystem and the creator economy. There may or may not be the phrase somewhere in this outline, ‘the content creator to content entrepreneur pipeline.’ Which I thought you would appreciate more than ‘I'm in my content entrepreneur era.’

Matt: I like both, but I like the first one better. Because the difference between the two is monetization.

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: So the difference between a content creator and a content entrepreneur is a monetization tactic or strategy.

Lauren: Yes. So we're going to talk through that. We're going to talk through what that looks like, what we've seen and even experienced ourselves a little bit. And then where print books can help you kind of solidify that, maybe even take it to the next stage and really help you kind of slot that last piece – or not last piece, because you're never done building on this – but slot that next piece into place.

Matt: Yeah. As a side note, there's a college. I think it's somewhere in New York, maybe upstate New York, where you're from. That now offers a minor in creator economy.

Lauren: That's cool.

Matt: I think it's cool. I'm not sure. I haven't decided yet. I wish I could remember the name of the school, actually. I'll have to look it up.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: But.

Lauren: I think that is something that's interesting in, in the sense that I'm having a hard time imagining, like... by the time your four year program is over, Imagine how much things have changed from day one.

Matt: Well, yeah. So that's the question, right?

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: Like at first, sort of, glance or hearing you're like, yeah, that's cool. And maybe it's cool. But they didn't say what context it was in. So is it –

Lauren: True.

Matt: – is it a minor in, in creator economy, you know, economics? Is it a minor in creator economy... you know, like what's the - what's the angle? Because like you just said, I mean, quite frankly, anything to do with it is probably out of date the first week of class.

Lauren: Right.

Matt: Like the minute the syllabus is handed to you, it's probably out of date. And I bet some creators would argue that whatever they're going to teach you in that minor, it's probably not very helpful in the real world.

Lauren: Yeah, you’d almost be better off –

Matt: But I don’t know.

Lauren: – doing like, I'm going to buy a four year pass to one, like content creator or content entrepreneur event and go every year to this four day event.

Matt: Or I'm just going to subscribe to six of the top newsletters and –

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: – get my creator education that way. Like, I don't know, I just thought it was a little bit telling in terms of just, you know, A. how academia is always behind on everything, you know?

Lauren: There’s that.

Matt: Oddly enough. But B., I think it's a signal just of how society is kind of embracing it.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: For good or bad, whatever. Anyways.

Lauren: Yeah. I mean, it's definitely –

Matt: I just thought it was interesting.

Lauren: It is interesting. Now I'm kind of thinking about, like, what would I... Oh no, this is the whole tangent. Okay. We can't do this. I'm going to start building a curriculum in my head.

Matt: Oh, yeah. I don’t want to go down that –

Lauren: Like, what courses would I –

Matt: I don’t want to do that.

Lauren: Yeah. No, no, we can't go there.

Matt: I'd rather build a curriculum for like, you know, if you were going to get a minor in managing Disney Parks, or something. Like, you know? What does that curriculum look like?

Lauren: I do actually –

Matt: I need a class on churros.

Lauren: I actually really do think that if I could go back in time – I feel like this is one of the, one of the things that you learn as an adult. That maybe is why so many people get drawn to things like content creation or like, being an independent educator or creator or something like that. Is because there are so many jobs that I didn't know were an option when I was a kid.

Matt: Oh, yeah.

Lauren: That I think would've been like, like something that I would, like if I had known when I was sixteen –

Matt: When I was a kid most of those jobs –

Lauren: – that theme park management was.

Matt: – weren’t an option.

Lauren: Well that too. But like, like I would have positioned my...

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: – education like, very differently if I’d known then what I know now.

Matt: Now all those people you laughed at because they they majored in hospitality management.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. Now who's laughing?

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: I went to an engineering college and I took a bunch of liberal arts classes. I could have been an imagineer – No I couldn't have. But, you know.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: You know. But for those of you that are going in the direction of, or already well on your way into this creator economy, and and you don't need that degree...

Matt: You don't need a degree. Well, anyways.

Lauren: It’s not what my degree‘s in, don’t worry.

Matt: That was my derailment for the day.

Lauren: We’re, we're off to a great start.

[7:05] - Digital Content Today

Matt: Alright, so. We're talking about incorporating print.

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: Into your monetization strategy as a creator. Or if you don't have a monetization strategy yet, print's a great way to start it.

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: Why do you think that?

Lauren: I think there's a lot of... like in, in where we are right now in... like culturally and digitally, specifically, and this, like, digital ecosystem that we're in right now. Everything is so intangible and occasionally – frequently – inauthentic and ephemeral. I know you were just waiting for me to use that. But whether you are a consumer of content or a creator of content, we're kind of trapped in this like endless churn of 24/7 content refreshing. It's quite literally flash in the pan content that may be seen once, may never be seen, and then disappears into the ether. I just think that we, like we live in a digital space right now.

Matt: Yes.

Lauren: Where the people that are putting the content into that space have a very finite amount of control –

Matt: Yes.

Lauren: – over what happens with their content once they get it out there.

Matt: I don't think anybody could argue with that.

Lauren: I don't think so either.

Matt: For the most part.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: So, you know, how do you make that content last? How do you make it tangible? And how do you use it to reach people in a way that isn't going to immediately disappear?

Matt: I like it.

Lauren: Thanks.

Matt: I like the making money part.

Lauren: Well, there's that too.

Matt: Yeah. So hopefully we get to that pretty quickly.

Lauren: We will. We will definitely get to that.

Matt: That’s my favorite part. So I think one of the important things to point out at the very top of all of this is that publishing a book is not the same as writing a book.

Lauren: We've made that point once or twice.

Matt: In fact, you could probably replace the word publishing with the word creating or even selling. None of those actions necessarily mean you have to full on write a book.

Lauren: Right. And that can mean different things. And again, we've done multiple episodes on this so we don't have to rehash the individual ideas on different types of books you can make, and different ways you can turn your content into a book. I'll link several episodes in the show notes that you can listen to those if you want to dive deeper into those ideas. But if you're not sold on the concept of a book, think about reframing it as just another way that you can package your existing content. Or new content, you know, whatever. But if you are already in the mindset of... I write blog posts and I wanted to create podcast episodes that, you know, or videos, or whatever, that's using that same content, but delivering it in a different method to reach a different audience of people.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: Or I want to take my longform videos and make them into short form social media content, whatever. This is just another version of that. You're taking your content and moving it over to a new platform and a new package, and that just happens to be print books.

Matt: Repackaging –

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: – to make money.

Lauren: We should keep a tally of how many times you talk about making, making money in this episode.

Matt: I can tell you it'll probably be less times than you say the word ephemeral.

Lauren: Well, then I have a lot of catching up to do.

Matt: Yeah. All right. Well let's, let's get to that part about becoming a content entrepreneur.

Lauren: Okay.

Matt: Instead of just being a content creator.

[10:57] - The Content Creator to Content Entrepreneur Pipeline

Lauren: Alright. So I don't think any of this is really news to anybody, but just to kind of lay it out, lay the journey out here. Regardless of how how you're kind of approaching this, whether it was something that you started as just a hobby, that you started posting content for fun, and that evolved over time into something that you were like, oh hey, I could, I can make some money off of this, or –

Matt: Or I'd like to make some money off of this.

Lauren: I would like to, I got to figure out – like, you know, or this is actually going somewhere. I didn't expect people to follow this, but I actually have, like, a pretty decent number of followers. What do I do here?

Matt: Or I hate my job and I'd like to not be at my job anymore.

Lauren: That would be –

Matt: And I’d like to just create and sell content full time.

Lauren: I mean, personally, I can't agree with that, I love my job.

Matt: Yeah, I was going to say tread lightly here on that one. But we do know –

Lauren: But there are plenty of people, yes.

Matt: – one of the big benefits of being a content entrepreneur, and not just a content creator, is that when you make money from your content, you have a much better likelihood of not having to work a nine to five and being chained to a cubicle.

Lauren: All I want is the kind of job that I can do from as, as adjacent to Disney World property as possible.

Matt: Okay. You do know that you cannot live in the woods behind Walt Disney World, right?

Lauren: No, I don't want to – I don't, I don't need to live in that swamp.

Matt: Alright.

Lauren: Thank you so much. But anyway, when you're in that early stage or, you know, if you are starting just from the jump of saying like, yes, I am here. Like, I've always known that I want to start this as a business. Like, I always know that I'm doing this – no matter which angle you're coming at it from, you still kind of going along that same path. Where you're going to start by creating and promoting as much content as you can.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: You're going to be churning out as much content as you can, probably short form content. Maybe you'll evolve that into some long form content too. But, you know, if you really want to get out there, it's, it's the, the quantity. Right? Like you're really, you got to get out there. You got to be consistent. This is all the advice they tell you like, 101. You gotta be posting every day, maybe multiple times a day. Valuable content, but still frequent content. You're probably using third party platforms, whether that is something like Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, LinkedIn, whatever. You're not building on your own space yet.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: So, you know, if you're starting there... Sure. Great. That's, that's a totally, like, sensical and viable option for how to do that.

Matt: Sensical. Another good word.

Lauren: Thank you. Beyond that, you know, we reach that that stage where people are looking for ownership.

Matt: Yes.

Lauren: Now.

Matt: Not only are you – you should be evolving as a content creator, right? Which does include if you've primarily done short form content up to this point, getting to to a place where you're doing long form content. Because that's where you're going to start to have, you know, a little more success converting it to something that you can monetize. But, thinking about ownership and going from these, these channels where you don't have a lot of control over... Again, you're, you're putting stuff out there, you're building your audience, but you've got to start getting to that place where you know, you're trying to actively move them somewhere that you have way more control. Because you can't monetize effectively until you have control.

Lauren: Right.

Matt: If you try to monetize on social media alone, you're pretty hamstrung there. If you try to monetize on some of these other channels like YouTube alone, without any other type of owned platform, or way to control, like, you're hamstrung there. You're still at the mercy of the platforms. So you've got to get them over to an email newsletter, a paid community or a membership, or something like that, or, you know, a Patreon or a Substack or any one of those, those types of platforms where you have way more control.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: And ownership to a degree. So ownership in the sense that an email list, for example, if you want to leave that email platform, you can take your list with you. If you want to leave TikTok, what are you taking with you? Nothing.

Lauren: Nothing.

Matt: There's nothing to take. You don't own any of that. It's all property of TikTok. So unless you also downloaded each one of those videos you created or had them stored somewhere else, or... you might be able to take that content, but you're still not taking any of those followers or people who hit that like button or reshared your content, so.

Lauren: Which is also something that in that scenario, you're walking away willingly. We hear stories all the time –

Matt: Yes.

Lauren: – of people whose platform got taken from them for some reason or another, their account got banned –

Matt: Yep.

Lauren: – or suspended –

Matt: – or hacked. Or whatever, Yeah.

Lauren: – or hacked. Or their Facebook page got shut down, and Facebook has not responded to any appeals on it. Like –

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: – this happens all the time. And if you didn't have a backup option to that, if you didn't, if you weren't already doing the things that you needed to do to save both your content and your audience, there's no way to recover that.

[16:08] - Building for Longevity and Legacy

Matt: Sayonara. Are we done talking about my favorite stage, which is ownership, or are we going to keep talking about ownership?

Lauren: I mean, did you want to keep talking about it?

Matt: Well, it’s my favorite.

Lauren: It's never I know it, I know.

Matt: I love it.

Lauren: But I kind of wanted to get to the part where we talk about the next stage.

Matt: The next stage makes me feel old, but we can move on to the next stage.

Lauren: Because I think that in... in the spaces that we're in now, people need less and less convincing about having to get to that owned stage. Right?

Matt: That's probably true.

Lauren: You know?

Matt: And they're probably tired of hearing us harp on it and other people harp on it, but...

Lauren: Yeah. I –

Matt: Yeah?

Lauren: I think people in the same way that we've said, you know, a few years ago, we used to have to convince people that selling direct was a good idea. And then – and now people are like no no, we're, we're sold on that. We're good on that. How, how do we do it? How do we get there?

Matt: For the most part, yeah.

Lauren: Right. So I don't think we need to convince anyone listening that it's important to have ownership of your audience or your, your content or your creator experience –

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: – or whatever it is. But I think that's a stage that a lot of people get stuck at. Where they go, okay, I've done the things, I've moved people, or I have like at least one controlled space within my ecosystem that I'm doing everything I can to funnel people from here. I'm still using these third party platforms as a discoverability tool, and I'm still posting content here, but I'm doing my best to kind of like shuffle people over to here as frequently as possible. Which, of course, yeah. And now what? Now it's time to build long lasting, quality spaces that will give your business longevity and...

Matt: I feel like you’re dancing around the word that makes me feel old.

Lauren: I just said the word longevity.

Matt: Legacy.

Lauren: Oh. Well, I was giving you an opportunity to say make money.

Matt: Oh, well, yeah. But, I don't think the two are necessarily mutually exclusive, or –

Lauren: Oh, no.

Matt: – tied or relevant. But longevity and legacy, I think, can mean different things. Longevity is important, yes. Building a legacy could be, or could mean, something slightly different. I think both are important, by the way, but for different reasons to different creators and different creator types. Longevity is extremely important as it relates to building a business. Yes. You know, the more that you can put systems in place that create longevity for your business, the more that you can monetize content that will achieve longevity in the market. Of course, yeah. Legacy I think is slightly different, but also relevant to this conversation. Legacy can mean a couple of different things. We've talked to some people that have talked about legacy and what that means to them. Justin Moore talked about legacy.

Justin: This is going to sound super cheesy, but, you know, we've been doing this since 2009, and I very much felt drawn to educating the next generation of creators. It was kind of like a legacy thing. I don't know if this is like, maybe I'm getting more existential as I get older, but I really felt – I feel so blessed. The amount of success that my wife and I have had, personally, over our career. And it was like, I kind of want to pay it forward. Like, kinda pass the torch to the next generation, so to speak? So it very much was an impact play.

Matt: I think that's important. You know?

Lauren: I think so too.

Matt: And the reason I think it's important is because I'm older than you and I'm older than a lot of creators that we work with. And legacy starts to take on a different meaning the older you get. And I think it's important that, you know, a lot of these creators, because they are creating a new path, they're doing things differently than, than people have done before them. It's important to leave some traces of that, I think. So legacy is another thing to think about. If you're doing really cool stuff in your space as a creator. Everybody loves to joke that the internet is forever. No, it is not.

Lauren: Right.

Matt: 100% it is not. And if half these people are correct that are out here screaming that AI is about to take over the world and murder us all, you can believe that anything they don't want to exist on the internet anymore is not exist. The one thing AI can't touch is your bookshelves. You know? So yeah, I think that legacy is an important piece of that, too. But longevity. Yeah. Stage three, building longevity. As it relates to business.

Lauren: You're right. I think they're, they're parallel and complementary.

Matt: Yup. 100%

Lauren: I do think they are two separate things,

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: But I think that they’re also – I'm assuming that is the next stage that you want to be at with your business growth. If this is something that you are pursuing seriously and not just, I'm doing this for fun, and if it makes some money, that's cool too, and I'll keep making money with it for as long as I can. And then when it fades, it fades. Like – which, which is fine if that's, if that's what you want to do.

Matt: But that's the difference in a hobby and a business.

Lauren: Right.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: Right. That's the difference between a side hustle and a career that you're building.

Matt: Interesting choice of words. But yeah.

Lauren: Do you disagree?

Matt: I guess not.

Lauren: Okay. Okay. So I think there are some different ways for you to kind of really, really ground yourself and actually kind of pursue that longevity. And we've talked about them in, in some different episodes. But spoiler alert for this one, in this case, we're talking about using books. And there's a lot of different ways that you can use books for this, whether that's... Like, companion pieces for your digital content, if you're doing online courses and you're creating companion workbooks that go with that. Maybe you're, you're building a new product line around some print things, whether that's I'm going to put out an annual planner and people are going to come back to me year after year to get this planner.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: And that's how you're going to generate longevity. Maybe it's just putting together compilations every year. We've talked about other creators that have done this, that published a best of their work from this year, best of their content from, from this series that they did, or whatever.

Matt: I actually like that one, because... like for newsletters and podcasts, I have newsletters that I like, that I subscribe to, that – and I'll read the email every week when it comes. And then obviously the same with podcasts. But you get to a point where it's like, yeah, I know at some point earlier in this year so-and-so talked about this thing on their podcast. I don't really want to dig through all of the podcasts. I like the idea that if I wanted to, I could own a year's worth of that content in a book or something like that, and I could just flip right to it, you know, at my desk or whatever that might be. Yeah, I like that idea of just, again, a legacy product where I could have access to that. And I don't have to go flip through 147 podcasts or, you know, dig in my inbox for that, that newsletter. I'm not even sure when it was. Maybe it was four months ago, I don't remember. Maybe I accidentally deleted them, or data retention kicked in and those emails are gone, or whatever. But I've always liked that idea. Like, just kind of that annual sort of compilation of content.

[23:22] - Why Print Books

Lauren: I do too. Both as a consumer and as a creator. And this is a great segue – thanks for that – into talking about why, why print books specifically. Why print and why not, like, well can’t I just turn my content into an ebook and have it be a digital thing? No, that defeats the point. But that, that is – that first example right there is absolutely, I think, one of the main reasons. Is having that tangible and accessible kind of content there, that referential content that, you know – I know for me, in the same way that I know you do too, I know what creators and what resources I go back to again and again and again.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: And I frequently, I have, you know, these are all of my tabs that I keep open because I go back to them so often that I want to be able to reference them. And God knows I won't be able to find them if I'm trying to search them.

Matt: And I'll tell you what too. Man, I hate an ebook.

Lauren: I know.

Matt: And what I hate worse than an ebook is a thinly disguised PDF as an ebook. Like, I can't stand it. No I don't want your damn downloadable PDF that's supposed to be an ebook, that's supposed to, you know, teach me about the five ways to, you know, better monetize. But like, no, I don't want that.

Lauren: Yup.

Matt: But I'm a sucker for like, an actual print book. Like, yeah, it might be a short book – which is great too, by the way. I'm a huge fan of books –

Lauren: Oh yeah.

Matt: – I can read on one plane ride.

Lauren: Yep.

Matt: I love it. But no, I don't want your crappy little ebook PDF wannabe educational resource. Keep it. They're usually poorly done anyways.

Lauren: I know. I – you don't have to convince me. You don't have to convince me. And you probably don't have to convince listeners either, because we have talked about this.

Matt: They've all stopped listening at this point.

Lauren: It's alright. We don't need to go wildly far into this, but we – obviously, we've made the argument before that, that having a print book really does help you establish and build on your authority. Whether it's like a subconscious thing that that people subconsciously are like, oh, they know enough about this that they, they wrote a book on it. Like, that's, that's serious. Never underestimate the power of subconsciously connecting with people that way. But it's also a – literally, like a tangible physical thing that proves your investment in I've, I've dedicated time and energy and maybe even money into publishing this as a book.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: That means something to people. And obviously, of course, can also be a very powerful lead magnet. So.

Matt: There's actual data out there too, by the way, where, you know, organizations have, have done surveys and polled all different levels of executives and other people and –

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: – asked them questions like, hey, you know, if if somebody had actually written a book on a particular topic that you were interested in contracting somebody to consult for, would you be more inclined to give them an interview or hire them, versus somebody who hadn't? Or like – there's all kinds of data to support what we're saying. It's not, you know, it's not just our anecdotal experiences or our subjective outlook on this, even though we do agree it's probably better to hand somebody a book on the subject than a crappy little business card that was designed and printed on Vistaprint for $1.50.

Lauren: Absolutely. The episode that we did with Justin, the interview that we did with Justin where that legacy quote came from, he also talked about that being a surprising side effect of publishing his book.

Matt: Yes.

Lauren: Was that it unlocked a whole new tier of clients that were reaching out to him that were, like –

Matt: It's access.

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: So the way that Justin put it, which is the way that we've heard it from others at this point, too, is that, you know, as as a creator or, you know, however you choose to, to sort of identify. But if you're actively trying to recruit brands, especially larger ones, whether it's for sponsorships or consulting job or for anything really, nine times out of ten you're not getting past somebody at the, the director level. And that's if you're lucky. Like, you might land an email in the director of partnerships’ inbox. If you're lucky. It's very, very rare that you will get any higher than that. You know, a VP or C-suite or somebody like that. But one of the things Justin talked about, and others have echoed at this point, is that, you know, having written a book on something like that, it opens access to a whole ‘nother layer of prospecting. You can now actually find yourself in rooms with VP's, with C-suite, with, you know, executive VPs or other people that, they're the ones really that are making the decisions, and you're typically relegated to dealing with their gatekeepers. So yeah, it can open up access for you. It can broaden the playing field for you in a way that you hadn't thought about prior to that. And might not otherwise get access to.

Lauren: Yeah, possibly quite literally putting you in the room with them.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: Too.

Matt: Oh, 100%.

Lauren: Yeah. I mean, there's – just to wrap up quickly, we won't rehash a whole bunch of the different ways that we've already talked about. I would recommend going and listening to episode 58, if you want to listen to more about some of the main reasons that we think –

Matt: It seems so long ago now.

[28:54] - Print Books Open New Opportunities

Lauren: – are really valuable, I know. But there are some, some other reasons that we don't really talk about as often, that I think make a lot of sense here. And one of them is that, like, specific opportunity when it comes to partnering with, or getting sponsored by, or doing some kind of consulting with some bigger businesses.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: If that is something that you're interested in doing... Whether it's you want them to reach out to you and hire you for, like – to come in and do a workshop –

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: – in-house. Having a book is a selling point for that. Having a book is a value add for that, that you can say, I have this whole like, clear, succinct, one hour, this is what my workshop is. And as a value add, everyone that attends it will get a copy of a workbook or planner or something that I have designed specifically to help them continue to implement the things that I taught in that workshop.

Matt: Well what's even cooler... Is if you're using a platform that allows for personalization, and utilizes print-on-demand, you could actually do customized books for that particular event. Yep. So if you're going to be in a room with fifty people. For IBM, let's say. You could actually update the interior file for your book for that order of books, those fifty or sixty books, to have some dedication page in the front to that group of people you're speaking to. Or literally a one page summary of how everything in this book would relate to their business, or their vertical, or what they do. Like, you have a lot of creative freedoms there that, that takes it that extra mile, where you can guarantee you'll get invited back every time they do want to train a new group. And you can guarantee that by word of mouth they're going to recommend you to others for that same reason. So... yeah. Gosh, I keep going on these side paths. I'm just going to let you keep talking, go ahead.

Lauren: No no, no, I think I think this actually is much more of a conversation than the outline lends itself to. So that's okay. But I also think something else that you said in there with going back to, to getting yourself in the room with people. And this idea of using a book – I know this is a phrase that we overuse, but using a book as a business card.

Matt: Right.

Lauren: How many emails do you delete every single day that are phishing, cold call emails from people pitching nonsense to you?

Matt: I can't even count. And those are the ones that make it past our built-in –

Lauren: Right.

Matt: – spam filters. I got one yesterday, by the way, that I almost had to just show it to the entire team here. But this salesperson, who clearly was relying on some misguided AI tool to help with their, their lead prospecting, not only call me by the wrong name. So it was Dear Mark.

Lauren: Hi Mark.

Matt: The opening sentence was: Now that we're almost through the month of December –

Lauren: Oh no.

Matt: And you're probably wrapping up your 2026 budget planning, I'd love to talk to you about blah blah blah blah blah. This came yesterday, which was February 16th, as of this recording, sorry.

Lauren: Yeah, we're recording this early, sorry.

Matt: I mean, they're just, they're terrible. Then they just get worse. I thought AI was supposed to help a lot of these salespeople –

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: – get better. It's getting worse.

Lauren: It's, it's absolutely getting worse. It's constantly whether it's –

Matt: Ugh, it’s disgusting.

Lauren: – the wrong name, the wrong content. Getting emails that I'm like, I don't know what about my job title or my LinkedIn or whatever made you identify me as the appropriate recipient for this email, but let me tell you, I'm not. I could easily – I could absolutely book myself a weekend at, at a deluxe Disney Resort if I had a dollar for every email that I deleted in a month that were just, like, absolute – But you know what I will not delete? Is if somebody mailed me an envelope that had a book in it. And it was, if I got, if I came in to work and there was a package sitting on my desk and it was a book with a little handwritten note that was from – or not even, just like a, you know, just a quick like, hey, thought you might find this interesting, would love to connect one on one at some point. At the very least, I'm gonna flip through it.

Matt: It's a better presentation. And I – and again, when we talk about cutting through the noise, regardless of what it is you're doing, whether that's, you know, on social media or with a sales pitch or, you know, some sort of... Yeah, it just – I've yet to ever receive a book or a piece of printed content or something where I was as quick to toss it as I am 90% of the emails that come into my inbox every day.

Lauren: Yes. And we've talked about this in other episodes recently. Robbie Fitzwater talked about this at CEX last year. That direct mail is on the rise.

Matt: Yes. Again.

Lauren: It's a resurging trend. Physical print, mail, whether it's a catalog or just a postcard, an envelope, whatever it is like, whatever it is.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: That is absolutely on the rise. And it's effective. It's not on the rise because like, the industry is just throwing whatever at the wall. It's because it's working.

Matt: Well. It's, you know, we're going – we're going back to analog, because digital has become so saturated.

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: So, you know, to a degree, it makes sense that everything, like you started this episode talking about, is so digital. Like everybody's so attached to their devices, or their screens, or – the only way to be different these days and stand out and cut through that noise is to land in their mailbox instead of their inbox. It, there's just, it's almost impossible. So if you have a serious piece of content or something of real value, most people, like me, don't want your crappy little PDF that you're calling an ebook. Or they don't want, you know, whatever it is you're peddling that's in a digital format that's just going to land flat in their inbox, and possibly not even make it past their spam filter.

Lauren: I think there's a lot of... junk out there right now. Slop might be the word.

Matt: AI slop.

Lauren: The AI slop. Which I do, I do love, I do, I that's a –

Matt: Slopification?

Lauren: – the – yes.

Matt: I think we can breeze through the the eye slop ification of content, but.

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: Again, suffice to say everybody's talking about it right now. Like what's the best way to differentiate yourself? It is to show that you are a human being. It is to show that through your writing, through your content, through whatever it is you're making. And again, there's a great way to prove that you're a human being, and that the content you create is not fully generated by Elon Musk's army of robots. And that is to put it into a printed book and get that into people's hands.

Lauren: I do think it's also important to acknowledge that this is supposed to be a piece, and not the whole plan. Because I can absolutely hear people saying like, yeah, okay, but people are putting out books that are generated by AI all the time. Like, there are easily books out there right now that are POD books that somebody generated in ChatGPT and then threw up on Amazon. And you're right, those do exist. But this is a, this is a piece of the larger ecosystem that is working to prove your authenticity and prove your humanity.

Matt: Yeah. And they're generally different in terms of the circles that they're being promoted within.

Lauren: That too.

Matt: So the bad actors that are out there using AI to create books for a quick buck, a quick sale. A. they're typically relegated to Amazon only, and B. again, they're typically creating content that is almost a fiction in nature, ripping off other authors, because that's where the the quick turnover lies in making money. So I get it. I understand the argument, and it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But you know, I will put my print book, let's say, any day up against a couple of pieces you find on LinkedIn around the same topic. Because I can almost guarantee you what you found on LinkedIn was probably written completely by AI and probably doesn't make quite as much sense. Because, you know, again, there wasn't necessarily a human being that was fully invested in that content. Like there was just a content scheme, if you will.

Lauren: I think that it's – I think that people are still very quick to differentiate between AI content and real human content.

Matt: Or try to.

Lauren: Or I mean, or try to.

Matt: Yup.

Lauren: Yes, it is insane that we're all sitting here playing the like, ancient faerie rules of how many fingers do they have and –

Matt: The what?

Lauren: Faerie lore. Like old, like not – I'm not talking about like, romantasy faeries. I mean, like, actually like old English faerie lore of, like. Like you're not supposed to... Like, if a faerie says, like, asks for your name, you're not supposed to give them your name. Because names have power.

Matt: What? You have absolutely –

Lauren: Learn your folklore.

Matt: – gone off the rails. You might want to edit that out.

Lauren: Absolutely not.

Matt: I have no idea what you’re –

Lauren: There is at least one person listening that understood that reference.

Matt: First of all, if there was anybody left listening, even one person, they have now exited this podcast.

Lauren: Absolutely not.

Matt: I don't, I'm – faerie lore? Give them your name? Like, I don't understand.

Lauren: That's okay. That's okay. We can we can dive into this later. But we are –

Matt: What were we talking about?

Lauren: AI. And how –

Matt: AI.

Lauren: – people are still, people are still taking a moment to try to parse out AI content and human content.

Matt: And how did you get to faerie lore from that?

Lauren: Because –

Matt: I missed that bridge.

Lauren: Because one of the things that, like this is less of a problem now, but one of the like, original things that people were doing with AI generated images was they almost always had the incorrect number of fingers. Or there was some kind of, like they had an extra hand –

Matt: Okay.

Lauren: – or whatever.

Matt: Okay.

Lauren: So like that, that is one of the like, tricks there is like, is there something uncanny about –

Matt: You're a mess.

Lauren: This is why we got to stop recording in the afternoons.

Matt: I never thought –

Lauren: It gets weird.

Matt: – I would hear you talk about fairies. Okay.

Lauren: Okay.

Matt: But, I mean, you said it with full conviction, like it's a real thing.

Lauren: I guarantee you, if I googled this right now, other references would come up online. Other, like –

Matt: Yeah, you could also Google the reality of, of the Loch Ness Monster. And it would – like, it's fairies. Come on.

Lauren: Do you believe in the Loch Ness Monster? No, I do not. Do you believe in any of that? Do you – Bigfoot?

Matt: No.

Lauren: Mothman?

Matt: I also don't believe Tinkerbell is real.

Lauren: Those are completely different.

Matt: It’s – she's a fairy. Is she not?

Lauren: The fairies that I'm talking about would be disgusted by the comparison.

Matt: So the – Okay, let's just move on. Because I can feel myself wanting to go down this path with you. And I really don't think we should.

Lauren: And that is some folklore right there.

Matt: I mean, holy cow. So yeah, let's just, I'm not –

Lauren: Alright. The point is that one way or another, there are people out there that, that your book is going to solidify, whether it's your value, your authority, your like, humanity, whatever it is. Having a book, having printed content, having something that exists outside of your phone or the internet or a non-existent digital space is going to help you a lot more than it's going to hurt you for whatever reason. 

[41:07] - Making Money and Adding Value

Lauren: But I also think to go back to the idea of actually adding value with books, because that's really what Matt wanted to talk about from the very beginning. Right?

Matt: Making money with books.

Lauren: Making money.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: And the way that you make money with books, whether that is as a, as a product type. Or as a value add to your other monetization efforts.

Matt: Yeah. Like a lead generation tool.

Lauren: Right.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: So obviously product types, you can absolutely turn any of your content into books. We've talked about this once or twice.

Matt: Probably a few times, yeah.

Lauren: Probaby. Probably a few times. But there's also a lot of other ways that you can use a book to... I hate using the phrase USP. I hate that, I hate being like, like add a unique selling point to one of your existing things. But I do think that it is something that genuinely, like, if I was down to two different courses, let's say. If I was looking for an online course that I wanted to learn how to get better at podcasting and staying on track in a podcast and not going off on twenty-seven different tangents. And I came down to two different online courses, and one of them came with a workbook that was a companion workbook that I could take notes and have these references and resources and maybe included like, next steps for hey, after the course is over, here's what you do here. And maybe even if you have a series of courses, it kind of funnels them into your next course. They'll be a returning student. That to me is enough of a value add that I would choose that course over a book that didn't have – or, I'm sorry, over a course that didn't have a book –

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: – attached to it.

Matt: I like that Lou’s event, Momentum. He always does a pretty big workbook. And I like that we always includes sections from each of the speakers in there, and I think that's extremely valuable. I still have it on my desk –

Lauren: So do I, and I reference it.

Matt: – from a couple of years.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah, I – I yeah, I think that's, that's a really cool idea.

Lauren: And it was actually to, to that point. So not just online courses but also events. Which, there are other ways you can use books in events too. But for that specific example, a lot of the content in that workbook from the individual speakers was content that they said this is for later. Including me. A lot – like my session, the content that's in that workbook from my session was all, none of this is going to be useful to you right now, but in six months when you're –

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: – working on a book and you're at the the editing or the publishing or the formatting stage, this reference guide is going to be useful to you. And a lot of the other speakers did that too, and that is long term value add. This event was six months ago, and I'm still going back to that book, that workbook.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: So.

Matt: I think we've seen it used in a lot of ways. The only other one that I think is is really popular right now that's worth touching on is probably subscriptions. And or when you have like a membership circle or something like that. Having a tier where, you know, once a quarter or once a month, if you're ambitious, those subscribers that are at that tier would get something in the mail, whether that's a cool journal or notebook or a small book. We've seen people take, you know, a larger bucket of content that is meant to maybe be a series, like you talked about, and break it up into little micro books, you know? Forty pages or so, small book on whatever, you know, social media marketing or AI prompting or whatever. And then each month their, their membership circle at the highest tier will get one of those little books. And those little books cost the creator a dollar something to produce, you know? But you're talking about memberships that sometimes can range, you know, $150 a month or more. And so, while that book only costs you, as a creator, maybe a dollar or something, you know? And shipping is a couple of bucks. The value ratio there for you versus them is high on each side. You know? As a, as a subscriber, not only am I getting access to your content through your platform, but if once a month I'm getting a cool, you know, little package from you or even just a small book or something like that, it's just, it's a whole experience. It just takes it to another level. Or like you said, there's other options out there for, for, you know, communities that could be a part of or, or workshops or master classes, but every little thing you can do to set yours apart from the next creator's, that's really important. So again, cutting through the noise.

Lauren: Not only cutting through the noise compared to other creators, but also just within your own community. I think that is a great way to give people a reason to keep coming back. If you've got subscribers that you're like, okay, it was only $5 a month for them to subscribe to my Patreon, and it gives them exclusive access to digital content that I create on a regular basis plus like, community forums and stuff like that. Okay, maybe for $10 a month they can get print copies of your digital downloads, or maybe for $15 a month, you can kind of like add –

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: – not replacing the older ones, but you can add new tiers. And maybe that's how you get people along the pipeline is when they first come in, they say, oh yeah, $5 a month, easy peasy, no problem. And then, you know, maybe after a year of that, they're saying, oh, you know, I really do wish I had this in like print form or whatever. So now it is worth it.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: To bump it up to that next tier. And then when those people six months from now, you say, hey guys, I published a full book. Well, okay, I've already proven the value of my content. I've been happily paying $10 a month for your content. Sure. Let me let me throw more money your way for that book or that online course or –

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: – whatever. So that's again, if you're – to go all the way back to the beginning – if you're kind of stagnating at that point where you're like, I've got people here and now I don't know what to do with them.

Matt: Yeah. Which –

Lauren: This is a way to kind of drive that.

Matt: – I think actually is a, is a bigger problem than most people realize.

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: There's a lot of creators we talked to where they hit that stage and that just that's paralysis for them. Like, you know? Even if they've been collecting emails, which puts them a step ahead of a lot of people, they're not sure how to then push into monetization. Or they're afraid to ask, you know, for money in exchange for something. You know what I mean? Like, so I do think, again, in that instance where you're, you're new at it, and you're afraid to introduce monetization. A tangible product is the easiest way to to not only provide value, but at least provide the perception of value. Because there's something tangible in your hands. So, I think that's a really great point as well.

Lauren: I think this... I think we've kind of made the same argument so many times, just with different pieces of – like different elements of the argument. Like, when you’re selling –

Matt: Yeah, but this is the first time you've ever brought fairies into it.

Lauren: Honestly, that seems a little out of character for me, considering we've been doing this for 110 episodes. But. I guess there's a first time for everything. Sure. But, you know, we've talked about like, for, for authors, the idea of maybe, maybe you started off with selling on Amazon and then we're trying to convince you to go wide with your book sales and then hopefully sell direct as a part of that. And, you know, we've made the argument of, okay, we understand the value of those third party retailers. It’s a discoverability tool. It's a good way for you to test the waters. It's a good way for you to, to kind of, you know, go at this on your own until you've built up an audience. And then you have to, you have to move them along the pipeline if you want to keep that audience.

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: If you want to keep establishing that relationship. This is, this is that same argument, just with different things. If you are creating digital content, if you are a content creator or content entrepreneur who is creating digital content in any format, that is absolutely how you, how you find your audience, how you reach new people, how you put yourself out there. But the way that you keep them and the way that you continue to build on that is by creating something that 1. you own and control, and 2. will last longer than that digital content. And that's print.

Matt: I agree.

[50:12] - Episode Wrap Up

Lauren: Wow. Do you have anything else that you would like to add or should we, should we quit while we're... I don't want to say ahead, but while we're still here?

Matt: I feel like I'm just fully invested in this fairy thing. But I will say, I do think that, you know, of all the creators that we've spent time with over the years, and – I've yet to come across one who implemented some sort of print product into their monetization strategy and regretted it.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: So, you know, there are benefits to doing it with somebody like Lulu where it's print-on-demand. You're, you're not putting any money up front. And so that does kind of limit any barriers that might exist in terms of, you know, financial risk or inventory needs. But, you know, I've also never met a creator that put print into play and came back and said, you guys are full of it. This is no good.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: Like – And maybe they were just being nice, or maybe they were worried that you might send a bunch of fairies after them if they, if they talk bad about it, but. I think honestly, you know, in an age where everybody's attached to devices, the obvious play is to do something different. And that's print. So.

Lauren: And if you don't believe us, there's only one way to prove us wrong. And that's to try it.

Matt: It's probably a bunch of ways, but sure.

Lauren: No. The only way to prove us wrong –

Matt: Oh.

Lauren: – that print books would flop, would be if you implemented it and it flopped. So.

Matt: Okay.

Lauren: Try it.

Matt: Why not?

Lauren: And then tell us all about it.

Matt: And if you actually got this far in the episode, hit the like button and subscribe.

Lauren: Leave us a comment. Leave us a review. Maybe.

Matt: I don't know.

Lauren: I don't know about this one. But no, please, please do like and subscribe. Come back for another episode. We promise they're not all this crazy. We promise we'll start recording in the morning again, so that we're not both out of our minds by the time we're sitting in this studio.

Matt: So it's just in the afternoon that you think about fairies?

Lauren: You've already thought about fairies more in the last half hour than I have in the last, like, calendar year.

Matt: But you're the one that brought it up, so I don't know how that statement could be true.

Lauren: We got to cut this. We gotta – We got to end this...

Matt: Alright. Let's go.

Lauren: Thanks for listening, everyone. Please come back next week. I promise there will be no fairies in whatever episode comes out next week.

Matt: Thankfully.

Lauren: Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever. Like, subscribe, leave us a review. And until then, thanks for listening.

Matt: Later.

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Lauren

Lauren is the Content & Community Manager and co-host of Publish & Prosper, Lulu’s publishing, ecommerce, and marketing podcast.

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